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Hello

大家好

我是丁静

欢迎来到今天的科技早知道

那今天我们想聊一下这个opc 这个话题

Ai 时代

很多人都想自己做一家opc

也就是one person company 艺人公司

一个人在家

几个agent 可以做掉过去一整个团队的工作

那今天我们的嘉宾是girmo 的创始人

他是小而美这本书的作者

然后这本书的英文名字叫做the minimal less entrepreneneurs

然后作者叫做sacuu of india 等等等等

如果说今天大家讨论的这个opc 啊

是ai 火了之后才出现的概念的话

那我觉得撒q 可能可以算得上是这个领域的og 了

冈mo 一开始的时候确实是一家非小而美的的公司

他们是完全走了硅谷那种

呃

标准的融资路径啊

拿投资招团队

然后这个追求增长

但是因为

呃

增长的速度啊

不如vc 的预期

所以他们没有能够融到b 轮

然后公司被迫大幅度裁员

从二十多人团队然后缩到几个人

甚至是有一段时间实实剩剩了创始始人撒q 自己

那也就是在这个过程当中

钢ro 才变成了一家小并且高自动化然后持续盈利的公司

那所以对今天想要做opc 然后独立创业

或者是想用ai 放大个人杠杆的这些创业者来说呢

呃

他的经验其实还是蛮有参考价值的

比如啊

在a 镇的帮助之下

钢mo 作为一个年入两千万美元的公司

他们现在从技术到客服人员是怎么设置的

然后如果从来异变的话

他们会更加重投入市场呢还是产品

当然了

也有他在前些年参加马斯克的dolch

就是政府效率部门

之后他又加入了ls

就是美国税务局的一些他的思考

如果你想要做opc

嗯

这期节目或许会对你有一些启发

那这期是一个英文的访谈

按照惯例

我还是会一开始把内容用中文跟大家先总结一下

So yeah

I started building stuff one else a kid

Yes

You know

Starting with photoshop and has web design

And had access to those tools

And i saw up

那撒黑秀自己的创业故事其实还是蛮硅谷的

他很早就开始做自己的一些小东西

比如说是玩这个photoshop

然后做网站

然后后来学习了这个iphone 的开发

然后在episoore 上发布了自己的应用等等

后来pinchrest 创始人看到他的作品之后

就邀请他加入团队

他应该是pinrest 的第二位员工

那个时候他还是在读大学

嗯

只读了一个学期

然后他就决定退学了

然后去加入了pinterest

后来没有过多久啊

大概过了一年多之后吧吧

就开始始办办了自己的公司

叫做pmamero

一开始的时候啊

他也是走的这种非常典型的硅谷的路径

融资 扩张 招人

追求高速度的这样的增长

但是呢

Gamero 后来的发展啊

其实是并没有按照vc 的增长

他是一个好生意

然后有收入

然后也有用户的增长

但并不是那种指数级爆发的增长

于是啊

钢mo 其实后来就裁员了

然后团队缩到很小

咱又很长一段时间

他就搬到了其他的城市

然后几乎是一个人把公司维持了下来

再后来又到了疫情期间

创作者经济爆发了

然后钢莫o 其实又迎来了一波爆长

那他们现在仍然是一家年收入将近两千万级别的这样子的一个公司

但他的团队还是相对来说还是蛮小的

小秀自己在节目里面说哈

他们现在核心是三个工程师

然后加上兼职的一个cfo

然后加上兼职的法务

然后还有一点五个客服人员

那很多的客服和运营流程啊

其实都用ai agent 可以完全处理掉了

对对对

这段经历对于他来说还是蛮重要的

因为撒hiu 并不是说站在我要鼓吹大家全都是去做艺人公司的这个会长讲话

他是真实的经历过这个融资扩张的这个vc 模式

然后也是经历过这种非常精简然后以盈利优先

然后自主的这种小公司的模式

所以啊

当我们现在重新再谈opc 的时候

他的判断我觉得还是会有一些超越周期的借鉴意义的

I people say one person company

I would say four people there there the reason is you want one engineer who's awake twelve hours the day

And then you need another twelve is awake the other twelve of day

And then you need the same for customer support

嗯

这些里面我觉得有一个非常有意思的点就是他并不认为艺人公司就真的只能有一个人

大家现在说的opc 啊

很容易想象就是

呃

一个人加几个ai agent

然后就可以不需要团队了

但撒秀说

呃

如果真想要给你的用户提供很好的体验的话

可能最后不是一个人

而是四个人

哪四个人呢

呃

产品客服各两个

然后他们俩扳倒

那为什么呢

那比如说是gmo

现在大量的客服已经是有ai 来处理了

呃 他们说

当然可能后面完全是可以用ai 来代替

但是呢

如果用户发来问题

然后需要一个非常好的用户体验的时候

还是需要人在最后处理一些比较复杂的问题

特别是当ai 可能解决不了的一些问题的时候啊

用户不应该等很长的时间

而是应该有一个非常厉害的人类

然后马上进来接手把问题处理掉

所以啊

他想象的这个极简的公司里面

呃

并不是完全没有人

而是有一个非常小的团队

然后负责产品

工程

研发等等

然后有人负责这个用户和支持啊

The building stop is not even a different chatter at this point

So it's even more about who are you building for for

And then what problem are you solving for them

And then what are you solving them

第二个我觉得他讲的一个比较重要的点就是

Ai 可以帮你写代码

但是不能够帮你找到客户

我问saho

现在其实coding 的门槛越来越低

大家都可以把appcold

那让ai 写一个应用

那是不是小产品其实是反而更难推广更难卖了

那以前可能写软件是一种门槛

现在每个人都可以让自己的a 证去写一款健身追踪啊

比如说是日程管理啊

呃

各种小工具的

那用户为什么还需要买你的

那小秀他自己的回答也很直接

他说啊

你当然不可能只花十五分钟

然后让a 镇做一个ai 的app

然后就指望他能赚很多的钱

这个有点太天真了

嗯

如果你真的是懂这个领域

懂这个赛道

然后花一个周末能够做出一个很完整能够真正解决用户实际问题的

这个软件啊

比如说是给承包商管理排期

发票

库存合同的工具

稍微复杂一些的

它是仍然可以卖钱的

在过去你可能需要花六个月的时间才能把这样的一款软件做出来

那现在可能一个周末就能做出一把进行迭代

所以ai 真正改变的其实不是产品自动帮你赚钱

而是它的试错成本变得更低了

但是最核心的问题始终都没有变化

Ai

你到底为谁在做这样的一个产品

这样的一个产品是否真正的解决了用户的痛点

这也是sahel 在回看小而美这本书的写作的时候说到的一个变化

我问他如果今天要重写这本书的话

他会做出一些什么改动

他回答就是说他可能会少用community 这一个词

因为这个词现在已经被说的有点太多了

太模糊了

可能更直接的说法就是谁是你的客户

然后你想让谁的生活变得更加美好

那ai 时代呢

Build 变得越来越便宜

那真正稀缺的可能就是这样子的一个变化

那let's 如果you have product

Product you've build

And it's amazing

And someone else has a product and it's not even as good 是your product and not have humans selling

第三点

我觉得对很多创业者

产品人或者是像我们这种的内容创作者都会有启发

就是最好的软件不一定是躺赢的

销售啊

故事啊

还有这个创业的人味有常的重要

小秀很坦诚的聊到了当时这个他跟他的竞争对手pation 的对比

那刚入很长的一段时间都非常注重产品

注重设计

他自己啊

也承认他自己更加喜欢去做产品

所是很喜欢做市场和推销

但paatrion 在创作者市场里面

其实后面做的更大一个很重要的原因就是他们更擅长做市场营销

更擅长讲故事

然后更懂一些创作者的群体

尤其是和这个youtube 啊

音乐人啊粉丝经济的那一套

那这点在ai 时代其实也蛮重要的

因为当工具越来越容易做的话

那软件本身也越来越容易被复制

那真正能拉开差距的其实不是哎我也能做一样的功能

而是你是不是理解这一群啊

你的受众的这一群人

你是不是真的懂他们的痛点

然后是不是能够用他们懂得的语言把产品真正的讲给他们听

那不是能跟这一群人建立信任

所以小秀说啊

就是如果是一个技术创始人今天要招一个人的话

他觉得应该是销售

因为有的时候用户不是在理性的比较两个产品的功能

一个ai 自动生成的邮件也许挺好的

但如果有一个真人在认真的听你讲

然后理解你的问题

跟你建立人和人之间的连接的话

仍然可能会影响这个客户

I think that actually more people want to be artrepreneurs

They just don't want to run the business rate

So like let's that you have an amazing very stuff

嗯 呃

第四个讨论我觉得是非常有意思的

我自己觉得也是蛮开脑洞的

就是关于ai 会不会接手ceo 的这个工作

那撒黑又提到了一个还蛮有意思的想象

就是很多人创业

其实他们不想经营公司

比如说是很厉害的一个咖啡师

他可能只是享受做咖啡这件事情而已

那比如说是财务

税务 供应链

法律 工资

库存等等这些很繁琐的事情

它其实是不想自己做的

那未来有没有可能ai 变成了ceo

大量处理这种公司运营的功能

而人类可以专注于自己做最擅长的最有创造力然后最享受的那一部分工作

那过去的创业其实意味着你不仅只是需要做产品

然后包括变成老板之后要处理的很多鸡毛蒜皮的事情

你要变成管理者

Hr

财务负责人

法务接口等等等等

那未来可能会有这样的一种新的形态的出现

就是说你仍然拥有这家公司

但是ai 会替你处理大量的这种机器运转的部分

你更像是这一个事业里面最核心的创作者

或者就是手艺人

对

那虽然今天还不能完全实现

但是我觉得他提供了一个蛮有意思的方向吧

就是ai 不会让每个人都变成ceo

而是让更多人不被ceo 的这些杂物给困住

嗯

I saworwork for forty hours for the ios arently

But four days

Week and weekend that ii think about it a while

那第五个有意思的部分

是撒佑最近进入美国政府系统之后的一些观察

那他在短暂参加过这个dolge

就是政府效率部门

就是马斯克做的那个项目

他后来又加入了ios

然后也就是美国的税务局

那继续做他的这个政府数字化服务的这个相关的工作

那这段经历挺特别的

因为他一边在运营gm

Ro

然后一边在做这个极其庞大复杂非常缓慢的服务所有人的公共系统的这个数字化

那他在节目里面其实也提到啊

那创业公司和政府最大的区别就是创业公司可以选择客户

但是好的好的

呃 政府不行

政府必须服务所有人

政府软件难做的地方就是它不仅仅只是要把这个界面做的好看

而是要想怎么样能够把原本要打电话呀

寄信排队填纸质表格的这些流程变成普通人可以在线完成的服务

而且还得这个男女老少都能用得上手

Ai 他举了一个例子

在美国过去的这个dnv

也就是美国的这个交管部门吧

过去他的这个线上的体验非常非常的差

但是这几年很多州通过线上的这个自助服务

然后已经得到了明显的改善

所以他希望ios 然后也能够完成类似的转变

那这部分让我其实感觉到小而美的讨论其实不仅仅只是聊创业公司的效率问题

Ai 和软件当然可以让小团队更加有杠杆

但他们也可以让那些庞大的低效的影响很多人的公共的系统变得更加好用一些

Like i would be thing in the middle of ssach banner

Like it is minimalist

But the goal isn't like reduction to zero

Yeah

Like i enjoy

I want

Want to have a company that i actually working on

I don't want to go to zero

Because that i have to do something zero zero i

总结一下这些并不是一个简单的ai 时代艺人公司opc 要怎么做的一期节目

嗯

我觉得我可能有三个take away 吧

就是ai 让创作者的这个门槛

执行门槛降低了

但是没有降低判断门槛

还是要知道你的客户是谁

然后谁会为你买单

那这个其实没有变的

那第二个就是ai 可以让公司变小

但是人还是非常的重要特别是销售啊

故事啊

信任呢

用户理解这些东西

暂时还是没有办法能够用ai 直接去替代

甚至是可能如果有人来去做的话

会让你的产品更加这个优于竞争对手的产品

然后第三就是小而美

不是越小越好

也不是最好

就是公司里没人

他反而像是一种选择权

嗯

创始人可以决定自己想要多大的公司

然后想要承担多少的管理

然后想要把时间花在什么事情上面

我觉得散黑又不是在鼓吹大家都去创业

也不是说ai 会让创业变得更加的轻松

它更像是说

嗯

当工具变得足够强的时候

大家终于有机会去重新选择一种属于自己的工作方式

不是每个人都需要加入这个大公司

然后不是每个公司都需要融资扩张

你可以从一个真实的客户开始

从一个能收费的小产品开始

可能这才是小而美在ai 时代变得更加重要的原因

如果你正在思考ai 时代的创业

然后个人杠杆啊

自由职业啊

或者只想知道这个小而美这一套东西在今天还有没有意义

我觉得这一期可能会对你有一些启发

那欢迎大家继续收听节目的这个完整版

呃 嘉宾是gm

Rope 创始人

小而美的作者

撒here 乐

定点二哦五

节目开始前

想和大家分享一个消息

研究显示

到二零五零年

全球将有一半人会近视

十分之一会高度近视

现在几乎所有国家都在谈论近视率的上升

我们的青少年播客knock knock 世界本周就聊到这个话题

那节目除了从科学层面解释近视

还解读了

是什么因素让近视变成了一个全世界都重视的公共医疗问题

感兴趣的朋友可以点击单辑简介中的链接收听ai

Yeah Yeah

Back to your a previous experience

So you worked up intures for for a year or so

And then you when streace are your own business

So you were twenty

And then you raise a tons of busy planning

Yeah

I raised a million one point one million dollars

Siraround every are your maor something of the next year

I raised a series day

Which was like a seven nine dollar

I think round from planet perkins like that round

That was like the first time

As i oh

This is really like serious

Before it was kind of like i'm doing this thing

And it's kind of wear

But it feels like a reality tv show

But then as i oh

Well i have a board and a serious sday and like seven million dollars and a team and an office

Oknow now i'm like ked

Ked like four years years point one million about and

And i still working on all the time

You know live worand you know kind of experience

We still do that today would you do it with a great small team about five back that we rutwo about twenty five and peep

We were got run out of money

We've got a bridge from planof perkins

Two million dollars

And so at this point we raised to a ten total

And we were raised

We had about a year to like get to profitability

We failed

We fail to raise a series bee around the funding

So we basically downsized

We laid everyone off

We went down the three employees

And then just down to me

And then i basically just ran the basis myself

We got over the office um for about um five years from light twenty fifteen to obit basically happening

And just kind of break even skets improve profitable a couple contractors helping out here and there

And then cobit happened

And it that was our moment of like what we're like growing

Like superfast

That was really working like again

Like all the time for like two years

Three years

It wasn't planned for um

It was fully remote

And then that ended in like twenty

Twenty three

Twenty

Twenty four rright interest rates went up

We increase our pricing hour like a very nicely profitable business

We have great finance function

Legal function

All all you need to run a business

It

You know i can basically run it a day a week um

Then

Then i work at the issi so work for the hours for the ios currently

But four days aa week now like if you go back to twenty of teen right

When i lid everyone off

We got to to football

We had three people

After that we had like two or three contractors to do support and abog fixes

If that happened today i would probably not hire those humans alright

I would spend more time being like how can we just have an an ai agent automate exprocesses

That i

That someone has to do whether it's customer support well

And you can do it one hundred percent

But i think back

Then you could automate visibly twenty percent of the work

And so you had a human do eighty percent of the work

Uh in then required e like to five hours a day

Not

Not eight hours a day

But each of these jobs was like enough

Where i would not do be able to do susustainably i would just burburt up um

And i would have a job

But that i would not be able to get away from

And but today now you know ai agents would allow for basically probably something like an hour a day or a fifteen minutes

Today and i so have a minutoday

So you can find it

But there are there like a lot of the work they do is observing the ai and doing additional projeate development work at things like that so for the first time founder who want to start a teteor as for now so do you think any job function there are hard to replace these days or just not conistent as long as you know how to code

You know how to use agent

How you know how to deploy

You know architectural works

And then you can just basically ill everything by yourself

I mean

I think there's nothing that you can't have an agent do

It's more that they're just certain things

That are still time consuming

Even if you happany and do the work

And so if you just have a limited amount of time

You're 're going die

Other

Other hus s so so for example ing so for aa lot like the monthly ly that financial book function bookeeping functions at the company with i

Company we sought to beate taxes to a buunch of different countries and states

Every a month

Every quarter

Every year in sales tax

And if those government websites are annoying to work with it doesn't matter how good your ai tool is that like you're so gen out to that like a human

Like you know type in their naname and like chackphphone and what tever

And they'll have a capture that you know a robot won't be able to soll uh or you'll have to call a human or who nowwhat and anything else that you think that not be short term

Cannot be replaced by agent fully i mean

If

If you're doing something purely with it's software

I would say first person you should probably hire would be a sales person

Because presume you're building the products

You're probably doing sales in the beginning

But eventually you're gna want even without infinite amount of agency

You're still going to be

Wanting to spend all your time shipping products and bogs

And thinking at least

That's my from my bias or my perspective

So i would probably want to bring in i gonra be brought in this guy ride deouk h

But similarly i would dring in somebody who just would focus purely

You know some super young kid who can just email creators talked to them all day long get them to use a product

So sometimes that the users still want some like human touch

Didn't want to to be like

Oh

I'm talking to agent again i want some like a human at the end of the day

Let's say you have a product that you've built

And it's amazing

And someone else has a product

And it's not even as good as your product

But they have humans selling it and you're business

And you get two emails one is like ai written

It's very good

It solves your problem

But what is human

I do think that like that person

It may with the deal

It's almost a rational in a way right like right the clear

You may hard time justifiy

But this doesn't make sense

But this is a hard ofperor

I've learned like that's even think i've learned it to be answer like this the best opera does not with right like so i focused on building the best software

But patron you know is a much larger company

I don't think they're so that good

But theyve nailed the sales marketing aspect

I think

And now the you because

Because they been able

Able hire a lot of great people

They've been able to prove the product

And they have ai on the stup

So they wdn't like prepretty product product

But going when we're competed

I remember being like why are we losing

But they fundamentally product sign

But

But like i do

Think like you know

Just like leadership liand stustuff were very focused product engineering design

They're very focused something basically deketing and making money created campaigns like because user originand stuff

Yeah

I think they're way connenected in the youtube

They knew that audience

And they went after that audience

We did go after that

We didn't even think of that audience as a potential target

I think that this business model was more alipens with what you know

Ultimately was more alipect people sort of more patronage base model of supporting creators than selling digital products

But selling digital products is kind

Kind of like a millennial thing to do in a way right like gives like a it's uh timely doing on people are not as much

Selling

Selling usual products as much and anymore

I think last year a lot of a company there are hghing this role like storytellers

I think for like vc

Phone

Like some tech companies

They want this kind of story teler

I don't know what do you think about that

There is kind

Kind to marketing and i create tive stuff

There's re's another way of saying content creator right

It's funny

There's only so many roles in soofer businesses right

And you

You even say say sit for sopper businesses

Media businesses are also softwright

Like there's the people who build the product

Sooft engineers

Designers

Then there's the people who sell the product

And then there's people who like market the product

And in my opinion the people who market the product

We just keep chansing their name in order to hire them

But they used to god marketers communicate those people pr influencers

Content create or social media

You're just hiring people to generate impressions

And it really is like doesn't even really matter what they do

But the truth is

There are two at least two kinds of people

嗯

There's the people who want to talk to the customer

And then the people who want to build brought

And they almost never overlap right like bounders happen to overlap a little bit

But there's almost always can be a strong preference one

Where or the other i would say like seve jobs

My guess is he enjoyed building product

He didn't enjoy talking to customers

You know

Then you have someone like glariellison who probprobly ly like talking to customers

And did really care that much about the product

You can use that

You can even use the products and kind of tell like okay this got this works

But is because they just were really get

Get sale

So we're like microsoft right right is clclassic or the example of this i care way more about designing product

Right so um so anyway

You know

I think you're always going to have like gmard could shrink even more in size

But i think

I think nassively we could shrink to effectively four people

嗯

I would say that's like them

That like people say one person company

Uh

I would say four people and there are the reason is uh

Uh you want one engineer who's awake you know twelve hours ours today

And then you need another engineers is wawake other twelve hours in the day

And then you need the same perer er suppsupport

So if you want like to offer

If that dopossible customer spirits which is like afffectively

Almost like affetively ly h uh an insteant reply from an ai

If that doesn't solve the issue of fifteen minute

Really really diligent you know ten

Ten times the compute sort of response

And that doesn't solve the problem fifty minutes in an hour

You get a minute

Whois getting paid uh significant amount of money

Who effecvely has nothing else to do

Is everything's been automated

Who can just work on your issue solve

The issue solve the bug

This bug would normally take two weeks to solve

But they could literally work on it

And if they can't finish it

They

They structure it

So they can hand it off to the person

Who then works on it

That to me is like yes i could choose to fire everybody you can and just run gover of myself right

And i would just have to come into the office

Which i have its five and a walk from my house

Uh it has water and food and

And cleclean it weekly i could come come in

Has internet can come in

I can work for like three humans today do minimal support you minid mit

But is that

That like the bright energy who right to like minimize

But i would be thinking the middle of a ocpreneurr

I want to to have a company that i actually joy working on ai don't want to go to zero

Because then i have to do something else

I think tefirrises like the four four hours work week and his school is not work

I think the core um take away for me is you can choose

You can decide

Whether you want to pick this weit or not i think for a lot of my chinese friend who were for like by dance or red nows early like feeling

There are kind of they have to keep running

If i stop

Everything will be ruined

They were like so afraid to like not responding to cause or emails and ten pm they always go back to to bed

Go back to their apartment at twelve

They look horrible and just feel like they're not healthy

I just feel like they don't have a choice

呵呵 Yeah

I mean the truth is like it feels like you don't have a choice

Because if you get off the train

It'll continue right and even if you cash out with five million dollars

If you waited one more year

You'd have ten million dollars

Right it's sort of human psychological condition

That like is under other reslve bolids

It's then like it is the nature of the industry

Like it sorry you pick an industry in which it does have he's crazy multipliers

And you know like i saw yesterday like cognition er raised a billion dollars and the twenty six billion dollar edustry as like wow that's crazy a billion dollars raised that's insane

But then anthropic just raised sixty five doillion

You know it's like incomprehensily ly larit's twice as laras the largest ipo in history

And it's still pronet it

It's like hard to work comprehend right

Yeah

So i was just trying to get to the to the point that you said that a lot of people got laid off

And some of them might choose to become entrepreneur

But entreprener life seems like very scary for a lot of people

There's not a lot of place to learn how to be entrepreneur

Spat i do you think things will be different by

Now i could imagine that the ai takes over the role of the ceo

I think that actually more people want to be entrepreneurs

They just don't want to run the business right

So like let's say you have an amazing borry stuff

They

They may want their own coffee shop break

They may want their own design

Their own in

Their own location uh their own hours

They want all the money that they

They would make for them

But they don't want to deal with the distribution stuff

They don't want to deal maybe they 'even do the markekets up

But they don't want to deal with you know sourcing

They don't want to deal with supply chain management

They don't want to deal with payroll

They don't deal with taxes

They don't want to deal with finance

They

They don't want to deal with legal

You could imaine that they use in a agent

That agent does all is effectively that see al the company they run the bit

And they effectively almost employ the human

The human is still the owner of the business right like leggally that's the gme

But it's like almost like i just am the employee

I am the soffoer engineer of ammer ii just work on mmer ai rurun as the company ai does

But in am the leleal of the executive function

The hiring the firing all of that stup so you know i could see a world

You could sort of have an app on your phone

That kind of like onns your business

And you get to genically unlock do the stuff block

Even as things get more futuristic

You could imagine a world at which like even other business partners become automated so for example

You could imagine that like right now you

You would so have to them like unlock take all the deliveries

You know do all that are

But eventually you could imagine a service

If there's enough demand by this new kind of market

You could imagine a service that comes in they unlock

They have a key code that unlocks the door

They're or you know you could imagory for you 对

And then uh you know they take a photo

And then ai like confirms it uh and updayour your ventory right or you do a some sink on your side

When you come in the office

And you just take a photo with your app

And you just sinks your inventory

And

And just perfirms

It just

Just sure rely

It did is this

Here is this year

Ah up up good go good

Awesome

And you just do your like you know your pre work checklist

And then you start your job

And then you have your postwork checklist

And then truking a is just just kind of running business business

Know know specispecially interesting

Ideyeah ah ah ah

You can just do the word does most interesting

And an ai can take care of all the rest

Yeah

Like let's say you want to make twenty percent more money

Right you can just do it

You can just tell your ai

Hey

I want to make twenty percent more money

It's like cool do you want to be open more hours

You want want to do ae hedo want want to do a breright

Like

Like these are the oolike like copy perpermake more money

When want like

Like re's some some degree of control

You have over your incup

Right it's not infinite

But you don't

You can't make

But like there's some degree of of control

Here like it over the break

He can choose to make more mind

Uh you could spend money sugramaalreally there is also sorort of stop

You could choose to do

You could could cord a tick talk

Like you you you

You could

You could could do a loyalty analloyalty program

You could do a all sort of up up in so yeah

I could

I could totally see a world

Uh in which i know there's an ii kind of motivate you i think will experiexperiment

I gerwould with these ideas

Within

Within context of gmma ood and helping ing raalty sort of like automate sale part so anything change that um in this ai agent era

Then what you rorow in the books

Do you think anything is different

These days that you will change

Then you

You write a book

Um i mean

I wasn't

I mean philosopopically that it's bit similar

I would say the biggest thing is that

I would focus more on building earlier

So i think that

And i wrote a book

It was still like high cost to building stuff

So there was a lot of emphasis on

Like what you wananted to before

Before you build things not that much

But like the menuvaluable process for exple right when would still say valvalid

But you would do that in the context of ai

Like when you're trying to do the mank of valuable process like eventually automate some problem

Like you would just basicbly have your ai do it so for example like this

If we built to thing that automates creater sales

We work on it

Until we found that there was a creatter

That was starting to make money

Completely automate automatically in an auauomomous way

You basically generating you know landing pages

Products

A combination of products

Landing pages and uh emails sent out

Because that's leked the way that they reach out to their audience typictically

Coractively

And we just mess rangle that until you know in a very man

Your way like just humans like trying stuff shipping features messing around out

Proms s until it's

Oh

This work

And you mailed in this way to this subset of the audience framed in this way

Which is we know

And you just can't have to build that mental map

And then you can turn it into a product feature

That's fully automated right

Or they just have a togo

And they're up that's the goal

They should have have to anyanyelse se

Because once there's more than that the conversion rate

The usage is like zero percent right like it has to be

Like oh

I'll just turn that on

And eventually it's so good

That we it's like default on

And they have to turn it all that would be

You know that's a kind of the ultimate kind of could go uh

But otherwise like building communteand and parts stay the same

I don't

I do be honest

I think if i were to rewrite it

I would not use the world community

Because i just in the world community is like loaded

You will look like think too much about it like if you

If you want to be a musiciship

Who is your audience

Who is your listenership

If this as suit you

You are doing a business

You need an audience

Because that's really what it's about and

And ce whose life you want to make better

Because once

Once you know who that person is that you can actually do stup like whowhogiving ving money are your soloftwyou

You know um and that it really who are you building for

And then what problem are you solving for them and once are you solving them and hethat's that the right problem is that the right solution at the bround

And the cool thing is now because building can happen so quickly

You should be able to iterate on that pass

Yeah

You can kiss constantly here exsteted like okay

I'm going

It's been six months a year and trying this one thing that's one newcase

You know like two weeks two weeks two weeks two weeks to you know like you should be able to go much faster

Um you don't have revenue

Venue

Two weeks

New customer

New problem

New solution

Every two weeks until you have revenue

Once you have revenue

Then you have a ten percent chance

This becomes a real business

Yeah

When that's question just my curiosity

So how's it different from working in civicon valley

In

In for government for our s

Yeah

It's different

Different

I would say there's two big differences or unless say three one is incense like

So it starts yours

It's kind of selfish and away right like you're going to get rich

It's a very pure in a way incenent of that works very well

You don't have that in government

In government

The incenent of it's hard to explain

You 're an honestly like hicks doesn't really make sense

Um you don't want to think about it too hard honestly like uh it just feels good

It's bad as i don't know like impact of more positive back

And i would have private sector

Yeah

It did would it

It's more fun personally because it is more challenging for that

Maybe that's what i'm doing it

But then the other big one is is is time duration so starts

You do have it long time for dderation

But i think what government is much more like everyone is thinking about it

And it just it's like everything you build it's going to exist for fifty long years

Whether you like everything or hundred years

Uh i mean you could see with the stamp so hey

Like things school exist for a long time so you when you make these decisions

You really when to make the right decisions so think think that startups it's more like move fast break things

Iterate it's a little harder to do that in the government

Um

And the last thing i would says that startups get to pick their customer

And so you just get to focus on like rich people who have a problem

You want to solve it

And they give you money

And you're after the racist with government

It's like you have to serve a hundred percent of people

And it's not about making money

It's just about service

It's just about delivering the good give me

If they need to do it

They don't want to do it

Um so so it's just about heit

It's like a hundred percent product market fit right like everything i build get a hundred percent usage

Every single person who uses it or want needs to use it

Will use it

Because they need to the customer satisfaction is like aa hundred percent

Because it's like

Oh

I was able to this was automated or like this was self serve

It's a

It's

It's great great way

And ii would like to believe that by doing this

And the real impact is if i can do this successfully

Then people will have a better image of the government

Because their their experience with the government has improved

But many many people's experience with a battle government is tax ing

Typicc

Thank you

So much

Yeah

Hopefully

I we can

Can chat

Yeah

Thank thank for your

Time time

Good good

Every rest

Your dday

Thank you

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