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嗯 Hello

Again

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Today we have in our studio

Tj Again Hi

Tj

Hi hi hi

Luluwegoing to have with

With jj one

Our philosopopy discussissiactually i'm sure a lot of you

Or listening to the show

You're like me

When we think of philosophy

It's something that's really dry es very difficult

Is very deep and profound

But actually those live stories of many philosophers are quite interesting

And what was fascinated

Yeah

While i think all of philosophy is very interesting

But some of it is more objectively interesting than other parts and as one philosopher in particular

I think that is just completely out there

And he's the crazist philosopher

That or least that life ve studihe's called diogeneies

And he's another greek philosopher

Diogeneies 中文叫dio ge

That's a bit too ancient for me

I've heard the name rings sebell

But what is he about it for you to call him the crazy phphosopopher

A lot of it is his life

So he love to live his philosophy and his life story is just incredibly interesting

And we don't know if it's a hundred percent true

But we know a lot of vid is true

Because it's reported in multiple places

嗯哼 Okay

Let's hear it

Well

He was born into one of the greek city states

And his dad was a banker

And the first thing that we really know about him

Is that he grew up

And he was convicted of a cricrime

That they were adding cheap metals to the coins

He was loeveryeverything he kicked out of his country

嗯

And they take took away all his possessions

So essentially

They were underfeeding money

They were making fake substandard coins

Right right right

He was a criminal

That's the first thing that we learn about him

Yeah

So he moves over

And he goes to aths

Which is of course the famous ciitwest soccties and plato

Yeah

But and plato was alive at the time

But he would go to plplatoa's lectures

But he was just eat and drink loudly in the lectures

And he would contradict playto

And he would go there

And just try to annoy platato as much as possible sounds like a very unlikable person right that's basically what we hear from the reports is that he was not the greatest person to be around he slept in a big jar

In a jar inside the town

The centre is he slept in a jar

He had no possessions of his own

And he would just go to the toilet anywhere in the middle of the street

And he was a philosophher right

He did study philosophy and similar ethcriies that we talked about

Before he would go around talking to people and talking about philosophy

But his philosophy was one that hated being pretentious

He thought the philosophers were too pretentious

And they needed to be am on natural

So being natural means going to the toilet

Whenever you want

Wherever you want

Well i mean if you look at nature that's animals and nature do right

They don't aren't pretentious and go to the toilet

They just live their life in a very natural and free way

That's taking natural way to the next level

这种返璞归真听起来也有点恐怖

Many people would call that uncivilized right

And i think part of his whole idea was to try really shake people to lenext conceptions really shock people

And

And make them think can you have this in china too like in chanbotism

The chzung forja

Yeah

This idea that sometimes you just need to really scare someone or shock them

Or say something very strange

Or do something very strange

Just to make them realize a lot of the kind of stupid ideas

That they have um the end of his life

So are you saying that he was doing that to shock people

He was doing that almost like ironically for a reason

Or was that just his way of life

I think it was both i think it was his way of life

And he was doing it to try and show a point

He do it very very insistently and really trand force people to confront some of the ideas that they had so after he you'been been athens for a while annoying people

The best story that we have all

The most accurate story we have is that he traveled for a time

And was eventually captured by pirates and sold a slavery

Where he was sold as a teacher

And then eventually after he taught children for his master

He was eventually said free

And the traditional story says that he died from holding his breath

That he just refused to breathe

One day he just held his breath and died well there's too much information or that was alive

So he was catched by pirates just 被了tiddodriduand

Then sold into slavery

And then became a teacher

And then he died hohold refused to breathe

Right

Right

How does that work he was a slave t shirt

Right he was bored

And his master realized that he was an intelligent slave

So they used him to teach their children

Um right one day

He just decided that he didn't want to live anymore

So he just held his breath until he died

He

He sounds very very odd

So to speak by the way you've told us about all these live stories

All these adventures so to speak

But what was his school thoughts

He 到底是哪一派的

Was his philosophy

What he found it at school

And we call that school

The cynics of cynism

Cynicism

Oh

Isn't that not trusting anything

Doubting everything

Cynism 在一般的口头表达里面就是只玩世不恭

But in philosophy

I think it's called 犬儒主义

犬is the dog

儒就是儒家的儒

Why is it called chaneru

I don't really even know the chinese translation where does it come from

Is it linked with the meaning in english or in greek

Right

So the word cynic comes from the greek word for dog

Oh

The reason

Why they use use worword dog

Because dioggenies lililike a dog

And he thought that dogs were a good modedefor our life that we should look at dodogs

We should think that we should look at dothem

Because dogs they are nice to people

That are nice to them

They growl at people that are mean to them

And then they will bite you

If you are very horrible to them

And diogeniny says that that's a good model just be very very simple very very straightforward if people a kind become

So we should all live like dogs

That was essentially his philosophy according to diogeneous

And like you said we use this word cinic to mean somebody that's very very skeptical

Ah ah and usually a little bit negative about things as well

But that was another thing

That diogeney was

He was very very sceptical about society

Mannyeah all of the things

That he would say very pretentious

The lee pollightss the way that we treat each other diogines would say no no no

We need to get rid of all of those things and go back to being truly natural

So he's a little bit like the dowests in that sense in traditional chinese philosophy

You a douis never ask you to go to toilet on the street

And then just go around like dogs rive

I think the diogenines has different

Different ata of nature ah than the dalests

But it's still the same basic idea of trying to be matural rather than live us some artificial standard set by society

Do you think that was his way of rebelling against social rules and all these manhorism atticket perhaps

All these class structure

Yes

I'ght to know what goes on inside somebody's mind

But 嗯

I assume that losing everything

That he was from a wealthy family that made coins

So they were making money literally

嗯

And then he lost everything

So i'm guessing that

That was what really changed him

He realized the money and all the things that hed known before he became a criminal were not that important

And there were more fundamental things in life

嗯

从这个良好的家境里面

这个家道中落之后就感觉金钱如粪土

But how do we know that he didn't just lose his mind and went crazy

How do we know what made him a philosophher rather than just a crazy person

What made him a philosophher is that he has a comprehensiher idea of what the good phis

What the good life is for him very very simple life to push away material possessions

To ignore people that you don't like

Like to spend time with people

That you do like and to try and stop other people from being pretentious

If you see people being pretentious

Then to try and stop them

To try and then wawathem up up

Write brock them

Them

That's

That's what he said right bock them and buy them and kind of

Understand where does whole behaving like a dog

Thing comes from

I can see that these good quality of dogs being loyal to do g who wathem well and and defend yourself or fight against people who are hostestile to you

I don't think diogeneies somehow would have liked cats

Because even if you're nice to cats

Sometimes cats are not really showing you the same level of respect

Right and that's the the problem with him

We don't know why he chose dogs

Why didn't he choose you know tigers or bars or any other kind of animal

Right chochose se his ideal l the reshuright race okay

That was an incredible story

But how is it still relevant

We know we still used the word cynical to mean that quite skeptical and douting ting everything and kind of 就是中文里说的万世不恭

How is that relevant

What can we still take from his school of philosophy

I think for me

He always serves an example of rejecting things that are imposed on you by other people

That he is that example of just saying no

Thank you

I don't want to follow the rules

I don't like the way that things are

And this happens throughout society all of history

You have people that just say no

I don't want this anymore

And whether it's a small thing or a big thing

They try to change the way that things are

And i think that that's what diogenines is

He's a very principled man

That has a very clear idea about what the good life is

And he follows his heart

You have to excuse my chinese

But you say something like

走自己的路

让别人去说something like that i think is that's diogeneies

I think so if you want to behave like a dog

Be like a dog

Don't mind not how people

People going to permind the strange looks other people give you right right

Think that

That's what we lelearn from um

Perhaps not to his extent

But right don't sure

There's something we can take from him to finish

Today's discussion of i'm going to ask you

Personally talking about cynicism

Diogeninies are you a cynical person

Would you say that you're a cynical person

I like to think of myself as skeptical but not cynical

Especially the modern usage of the word really emphasize is that negative

Yeah

Aspect cynical is very negative

But what is the difference cynical

Sceptical

They're both about not trusting the status

Cool Right

What is going on

I would say synticical you need more proof that you do question things to think is this really what it looks like um but cynical you're a lot more negative

And you think this is probably not what it looks like you

You give a lot more weight to the skepticism

So i think that it's just a skepticism

Just a little bit lighter

If helike to ask you a question as well luler

Yes Sure

Would you like to meet diogenees

Do you think you'd like to go for a drink with him

If hegonna go to the toilet

Anywhere he goes probably not

I didn't ininite him

Him to my place

That's for sure

But i would like to talk to him and to ask him

Why he behaved like the way he behaved really then be be ononderful to tend invent time machine and travel back to ask him

Whether all these analysis we just did was truly what he meant to show right you can meet him in the park

Just don't meet him in your house

You'll be okay

Exactly

哎

Alright on that note

I think we're going to wrap up a thank you tj for giving us this really quite strange but incredible story about one of the crazist phphosophh's diogenes

Thank you tj always a pleasure

And if you have anything to say how do you feel about the story

And would you like to meet him

If you could travel back in time

Leave you a comment in the comment section or see you next time bye hi

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