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I had a period time after my divorce wires really ambitious what it came to women

But then that it felt like a job

I can felt like a job after a while

Where i was like god is like enough

It's kind of enough

You know

Like it's like

Like when you've eten ten so much

That you is colher uh i got that way with posty

Like it really was like i just had enough

Like i was fine as think this is great

But yeah you're younew twenty years or thirties maybe yeah

Ye're your the beato was a strike milk

Yeah

She was sane

Yeah Yeah

I was not definitely was

Was age we mell yeyeah

Which i think his great

Although i asked say

Say one most most pressing didiorori ever did was a guy was i think in ninety two orjees

And what made it depressing is that he had left his

His wife ii don't know fifty something

Sixty something years for a younger woman

A woman in her fifties

And i just remember what was sad about it to me was this guy still being led around by his deck

Like i thought

Oh my god

Like i'm going to be changed to an idioot rever

Like i'm

I'm going to fover ver be let around on my deck

And i remember thinking like no

I really thought that it like ninety something i would just like a beautiful woman would walk by

And i go

There's a human being like there would be no yeah

There would just be no sense of like yeah

You know there would just that would be gone from me

And this guy's proof it ninety something years old

Then you're still thinking with your deck like i we're doing

I that terrified me

It really did it actually upset me

Because i thought man

I thought it's some point

I get to experience what it's like to just be free

You live in in york

Where there's

There's a financial industry

There's

Yeah

It's all kinds of instry ry

Oh Yeah

But to me

Sometimes i wonder if female attractiess isn't the most

The highest valued commodity

A honepresity is honperperit is

Yeah Yeah

Of course

Because you ve in beyoring verge

In powerful

In already get a womwoman

Course

The woman they are of course the what what an an tractive woman

And when i say attractive

I don't just mean attractive ii mean even just sexually confident

I mean what an unbelievably lucrative career

That is like i do divorce for people

That you know woman walks out with two three hundred million dollars

He was an analysted luldman sacks who built a hedfund

And then sold it

And then used his trading algorithm to build it up to five hundred million dollars

She was 啊and slept with him for a while

And then stopped and started sleeping with other people

And playing tennis

And having boat talx

And she's going to get half

Like that's fucking incredible

Like you know what he had to do to get that

And what she had all fuck that guy for two hundred million dollars are you kidding me like that's insane

That's incredible

And what and god bless

And i'm not saying that this person

This is the rules of the game you know

But you can't argue that

That's not easier than going harber

No for sure

But

But then the

The pay ff the trade off for that

Is that when they hit a certain age

The

The value decreate right play any stock

If you hold it too long

It's

It's going a go down

You know like so play play the stock the right way

I mean that's what i think uh if we were a little more honest about the nature of male

Female

Couple

I mean right now we can't even

You know we can't even establish what is gender

You know we can't establish any of that anymore

So so divorce is becoming incredibly hilarious and fraught what to to me

What is like sometimes you have to stand back

And look at things to

To get the real perspective on what it is

And sometimes you look back at marriage

So when was it invented like two thousand bc roughly in the life expectancy of humans that back then was eighteen years old

Yeah Yeah

Marriage crecrefor um land ownership

Land ownership and things like that yeah

And if you're going to die

Youyour early twenty years or whatever then

Then getting riried at sixteen eighteen make sense

Well

I think there's a distinction that has to be made betwtween peir bonds and marriage right

Marriage is a

Is a government concept

Marriage is a contract

Marriage is a legal status

Peirbbones right two people go in it together

You know saying here there re's seven point three billion people in the world in the two of us

We're going to

We're going to lock up together

And wegoing to try to hold ld hands and get through thing well until whatever outcome

You know mean what's interesting is first of all marriage is end

They am in death or divorce

But they all end

The every marriage is end

So it's one of the only things that you go

Wow

I really hope the sense in us dying

You know most things

You that's not the desired outcome

But in marriage

You hope marriage will end in death

You hope that you will be this tother ther til one one both both you didie you know

But all marriage end so as as a guy is a provider

If you knew is going to end

And you 're going to to give away have your money

You might think twice about

But well i think that's what makes being a divority or interesting is that it's

It's a lot of what a court has to do is this regard what happened in the marriage

Because a the truth is at the bottom of the bottom

Was it well you're never going to get

There was ah well well was he's fufuck in a secretary

Right

Because you were not sleeping with me

Anymore i declaine who's wife acknowledge shouldn't sleep with them for six years

What

What did you think was going on

If you didn't sleep with them for six years

Hiyou're okay

Delegate

You've delegated that responsponbility

Ility

If you don't want to have sex with them

That's okay

No onshe forforce you have sexx with this person

Let him go of sex with so body

You don't want to to do the laundry higher so want to do the laundry

If you don't want to move your own long hire someone to momodel on delegate that responsibility

And this guy wasn't even sleeping around

He was going to those handjob places

You know where you get a massage gyou get to look look what the most pathetic like in the world

The most a noccuous thing in the world

He dn't

Dn't a girlfriend

There was no love involved

Ved was get jjcked off that's fifty dollars like that's sad

Like i'have having first hand jobs like that's annountated technology

That's like a beta max

You know like who

Who been does that anymore

But he

He was doing this and he just thought ts kay that's fine

She had the indignation to say he's not a good

He shouldn't a cacasodial parent

He's a terrible person

Because he's doing this

And it was like wait

How is that that much different thing going into a strip club

How is that much more different

Because we just you know he was like should i deny it

It was like is it true and is acqually

Ah i said no

We should owe it let's going and say yeah you know what

And it's pathetic

It's really pathetic

My wife didn't sleep with me for six years

And i'm human

And i wanted to have sex still

I didn't want to glow up my life

I didn't want to group my kids

And have my kids have divorce parents

So i thought alright

She's clearly not interested me and more

I'm not wanted have a girlfriend and caught up and all the things

Where people could get hurt in their feelings and fatal attraction and stuff

I'm just going to go it

It'll be transactionally going

Going to strip club or anything else

And i'm yes

It's a little pathetic

Then i'm a guy makes a million dollars a year in finance

And i'm paying someone fifty dollars to jack me off

Yeah

It's kind of pathetic

But you know what i figured up

But to suggest that

That means i'm a bad parents

That is not going to do with my parenting at all period

And also i'm thanklly the judge agreed with me on that one

But i really do think that the idea i don't think i mean if you break it down fundamentally for fifty

Fifty six percent of marriages end in divorce

But think about that's the ones that end in divorce

So how many people what percent is stay together for the kids fokers

They don't give away way have after shit another ten percent

That's conservative

Conservatives

But let's say let's ate twenty percent

Then kay you now have a technology that fils seventy six percent of the time

That's insane

That's insane

That's more likely than not seventy six

But if i told there's re's seventy six percent

Chance

When you just out the to get

And you hit and have with the bowling ball

You would not go out

Or you'd wear a helmet for sure

But people just continue to get it not

Not do really continue it married

There's a presumption

That's you should get married

And if you don't get married

There's something wrong with you

So if you got a girlfriend

And you've been with there for five years

And you say to someone we're getting married

They go all that's great

You know they don't go

Why you're happy

Why would you get married like everything's going fine

Why would you put yourself through that

Why would you run that risk

对对

If you say to someone we've been together five years

And we've decided

We're not going to get married

We're going to ve in together

But we're not going to get married

We're 're not imacy issues

What's your problem

Me won't set fifty six percent and in divorce

It's

It's literally fits the legal definition of negligence

It's a negligent behavior

The way you to find negligence in law

Is

Is what you lose by not doing something okay is lower than the risk of harm

It's called abpl analysis

So the burden of not doing a thing is lower than the likelihood

The probability of harm so bpl the burden probability and loss marriage is an inherently negligent activity

It's like only a lion

Like

Like it's your the likelihood of someone getting hurt

Seriously vivate is very very high

No one ever says it too because

Why because

And

And i'm

I excize me

I've been doing this for over twenty years

And ii still get myyeyat weddings

Like i still really there's something in me that goes like you know maybe to work out for these two sweet

I absolutely believe with each ack

I think love is wonderful

But love and marriage have very little to do with each other

I don't think there's much of a correlation there

But i think that's where we got off track like i believe in pair bonnes i believe

I don't think i can learn everything

I need to know about myself from my off

I think having someone around you sees my blind spots

And that there doesn't have to be a romanic partner

There could be a friend

That could be any number of things

But there is something wonderful about romantic connection

We know that i mean the other stastastistic is eighty percent marmarriagand in divorce

But eighty four percent of people who get divorce or remarried within five years of their didivorce really think about that

So that you now you've done it and failed and felt the pain of the loss and within five years

Eighty four percent are remarried when you fall in love

And you you're with a partner

Who is love with you

Which is like hard to put the breaks on

And say you know it far as i'm going to go

Well well think think you know whoever discovered water

It wn't n't fish

And i think when we're in a thing

We don't see it and so i mean

And i'm just just true of any

It must be some some dorphin

Some some something being being leased

Think think

Please listen

You want to test that theory

The next time you're out with a couple or have been together for a while

And it like seems like they may be gotten a fight

Or they're just kind

Kind Kind

You know imppatient with each other at the table

You know when you're like a group thing just say to them

So tell me about how you met

Tell me

Tell me the story of how you met

And everything on them changes at like they go back to that place

And there's this like

Oh Yeah

She was this because for that second you go back to that place

So you can go someone with a horrible divorce

If you could get them to go to that place

And talk to you about that time

Like i would says something when i was a kid

You know like every kid you have the fantasy of like if you were invisible

What would you do

You did go to the growth locker room

You know whatever i have this fantasy that if i could be invisible

That i have about eight clients

That i'd like to sneak into their house and find their wedding album

Like i know it's in the attacks somewhere as some

Because i would love to see what it looked like when these people loved each other

Because they are weaponized against each other now

And we are trying to kill each other

And we're taking every secret

Every innmacy

Everything

And would just they're ugliist

That they're worst

And there's something in me

That just the thoughts like you guys at some point

Like at some point

You were like there's seven point three billion people in the world

And you're the one

Like you're the one

I just want to be with and smell and touch tion

Like that

That

That feeling

We all know that feeling of like just the electricity of another person

You know

And

And i mean

I You know

I think i'm a romantic get hard in the sense that i really get it like i really get why we do this

I felt it

I know where i understand it

But tiying that to the technology of marriage to me makes almost no sense whasoever

And i actually think it's almost antagonistic to that connection with another person

Because there's so much expectation that comes with marriage culturally we've created so much stuff around it like when you

When you marry someone

The're supposed to be at least in the modern western model

Your best friend

Best roomyate

Best coo parent

Best travel partner

Best roommate

Best everything

Best activity partner

Like how

How would one person be all of those things

That's insane like it

If

If i was interviewing for a job

And said i want you to be the best typist

And i also want you to be best in the phone

And i also want you to be greated it

And i ran them a list of dissimilar things like eeverywent to amazing chef

And i said i know you're a great cheppoa can new farm like though that has to do with food

But they're not the same thing like what do you tell so i think why do we put on people this idea like whoever came up with the word's so mate really we should be paying with divorce

Or it should be paying that person dividends

Because we've convinced people

That if this person isn't meeting every one of your needs

Checking all of these boxes

Theare not your soul mate

You

Your soul mate would know

Exactly what to do

Exactly what to say it exactly the right time i don't get

I go off on the stuff

Yeah Yeah

And what do you think the secret is

Is keeping a marririvital al make keeping it a

You know know

I think

I think people

People get happhappy marriages the way that people go bankrupt

Which is very slowly and than all at once

I think it's very slow

And then it just goes off a cliff

So everybody 'll say well we divorced because he was cheating or she was cheating

Or we divorce because he had a alcohol issue or drug issue

Which lately we're seeing more like alcohol and drugs is

Is a big big thing of an especially post pandemic

There's a tremendous amount of substance titive stuff ff causing a lot of issues and marmarriage uncertainly like social media has increased the accessibility of adulterary and connections to other people and reconnections of people from your past to remind you of a version of yourself that you felt more excited about because you're younger

So you know it used to be

If you like ran into the grow you bang and high school

It was like once every ten years at reunion you know

Or if you lived in the same town as you grew up

And you know you might run into the person at the walmart

But now it's like on facebook

You have all these excuses to be a liticchat with someone

And you know these biin entry points you know of like h

You know they saw your pictures from vacation

Where did you stay in miami

You know

And

And then it comes all yeah

Well you

It comes great

I mean Boy

You look fantastic in the begini

And it 're all the sudden

We're off to the race

And we're chatting with each other

So you know if we're going to invent like an infidelity machine

You couldn't do better than facebook and instagram

I mean that's about as goes as it guets

But i genuinely think that the secret to staying happy in marriage age

Probably the the same secret to maintaining a healthy wait

Don't wadon't wait to you get susufat at and try to lose the way

Don't wait unl you get get really sick like my sister is dentist

And she know he says if you have a toothache

There's nothing i can do

Really like i can pulled the ooooth

I need to roocan now

But like i can prevent you from getting a toothache

If you just come see me regularly

And you just floss and just brepresyour teeth

You'll never get it too thyouyou time youyou're too hurts

Something is already seriously wrong by the time you're in a divorce layerers office

Your fucked the whole things fock at that point like you'll be matterrogh

Just you know figuring out the preventative mainments right like changed the oil in your car

Like so i

What i try to if you reverse engineer divorce like most people the marriage killer

You know though the like the cheating or the gambling or the winter

That's the symptom like the the problem

These little disconnections

You know one of the

One of the

One of the best stories ii have this might i had declined i did her divorce

And we'spend a lot of time together

Because you do we know your divorce layers spend lot lot time time with people and get get know them very well

And people don't lie at their therapists that they don't live they're divorce layer

Because a there's no reason to and b you know i need to know everything

And it's all toriny climate privilege

And this woman we were sitting outside the courtroom waiting on a break and testimony

And she was a young woman

An an interpriprily like ate thorities ties know very attractive

And we were just chicch chatting

And i said duwere you know was there a moment

When you realized the ririage is over

You know like was there a moment

And she said yeah

Yeah

And was said a when was it

And she said i there was this grinlla

That i like she said it they only sold it

It like this particular grocery store

And i like to put it in my yogurt

And she said he used to always

Whenever i'd be running low on it

I would just open the thing one day and a new bag could be there

She's like ii just she's like to made me feel so loved

Like he didn't

I didn't have to ask he didn't want credit for it

Like he didn't go

Like hope did to see i got to brunning over that she wanted you know

Like he just would do this thing

You know

And she said it was just something that like i just always always may be smile

She said every time the ginoll la was run and low

And there was a new bg ger ginoll i just felt very loved

You know

And she said one day the ginolla ran out

And i thought

Oh

That's weird

Maybe

Maybe he didn't see it

She's like why leleft the bag in there

Because i thought well at some point he'll notice

And he didn't notice

She goes so i took the bag out

And i waited

And he didn't get a new back

And i thought okay this things going down

嗯嗯

And i thoughts myself

Oh

That's like you know

That's such a small thing like grrenolla

Like you just

But

But these are the things

Like these are the little things that make us feel loved

And that are gestures of love

And when i said to her was there anything like that for you with him

And she say yeup low jobs

And i almost spent out my coffee

And she goes no

She goes one of your first dating

And even first marry

She's guys seeget blood job a lot

She's like

You know she's like do in the morning to two minutes

And he was like super happy the rest of the day

You know she's like the rest of the day

Even like call me your texi envy like a lot them so good this morning you know i had such cup of my step now

And she's guys just like what did it really take out of my life to do that shelike

And it made him feel good

She's like

And then i got to a point

Where i was like well you know

Well now i wait in tonight

We can both when i got sesex will both enjoy that like what was

Was i owe him blow job like now you know

Like i don't owe him that you know

And and and then she said i got to a point where was like ii back

And

And yeyeyeah

I guei

I didn't do that is often hardly ever really you know

Which came first you know

I said that to wear

And she said

She said i couldn't tell you

She said

But i think it's the same thing

And i do think it's the same thing

And i'm not saying blow jobs in grrenola as all you need to know

But and i'm not by the way

I'm not saying that

That a blow job is a small thing

I don't think i have any right to i've ever given one blood

It seems like a phenomenal feet

And i'm grateful for everyone have ever received

But i don't

I don't think it's a massive investment right just like buying someone's green on le

It's not a massage

Just just like when you love somebody

You love doing things for them right

There pleasure pleases you their jojoy pleuyou

You like their

Their

You know their happiness makes you happy

And somewhere along the line

And it happens a lot in marriage

It becomes well i'm not happy

Why should you be happy

You know

And then that creates a spiral

And i really believe that you can that spiral al go in the

The other direction

If he did

Did the granolla

I think the blow jobs would have come

You know

And if the i

And if the blow jobs were there

I bet it put the the renola like ii can't prove that there's no control group

You know i can't run that research

But it feels to me like those little things like

Like leaving a note

You know i've

I've said to some of my

My friends

You know when they say to me like

You know it's didiororler er you know

See all this misery like what's how do i stay at your office

And ii often sam like it's duma little te man

I'm like just leaver a note

Like leave a note

The more just leave a little note

This

Hey y beautiful

You know it

It was fun n watching that movie with you last night so glad

We got to have a day

I'll be thinking in you today love you like what does that take

That takes aa minute

Not even like and just look it and balike look it look at how

That makes this person feel

And even if right away

It doesn't work on that moment

It doesn't work okay do it enough times like

And

And then you're either going to figure out that this person's gone

And then just fuck and bail you're done

Because if you try for long enough

And you you give like that

But if you're not giving like that

And then you're not getting back either well i'm not surprised

You know that's how you end up at my office is this death spiriral of everyone like well i'm not given vineerant all issues not given me mislow

Just as i'm not given a blow jobs es mean to me okay

Well

Everybody's just going to have equal right to be fuck and miserable

Then i think if you're happy with yourself

We truly happy with who you are at that point in your life

Or

Or whatever the situation is i think it's easier for you to be happy with your partner

Yeah

But i would argue that is you're 're not happy with yourself

Having someone happy with you is certainly not going to hurt your feeling of who you are right

Like i don't ii don't need someone to tell me i'm handsome for me to have a nice nice day

But i can't think of anybody telling now is handsome that it ruined my day

You know most of the time you're like that's nice nice

You know i got that on for me like it

So yeah

I think self love of course is the most important love

And

And to be securing who you are

And to not allow your self definition

To be easily self weighed or pol

Like you believe the good reviews

You got to believe the bad ones

Too i get that

But i don't think self kindness like it's just such an easy leguess

It's

It's easy

Like it's easy stuff

Like just telling someone that they're beautiful or handsome

Where that you're cheering for it just just to me with marriage or pairbonds

I shldn't say marriage like the world is trying to kill you all the time

You know like people are criticizing you all the time

You feel like a failure

A lot of the time

If you compare yourself

The other people you're constantly being know comparisons of the feet of joy

So why not have like one person who is just cheering for you know like constructive criticism is criticism

It's still just criticticism

If your your spouse is just sitting around criticizing you telling you all the things you could do to improve yourself instead of people being a fan and just sasaying

Know know what i know

Know you are

Are your

Your beautii know who you are in your

Your heart is good and betting on the best parts of a person

I acthink think there's no

There's very little downside to that you know i think it put guys like me out of business

If people really leverage that that right right way know i actually really

If you believe in love

She said you do

Do you believe the marriage

I mean

I believe people believe in marriage

No Yeah

Do i believe in marriage

I don't

I don't think it's a useful technology

I understand culturally why people do it

But i don't think people should need it

You know what i certainly don't need marriage

I don't think marriage

I was married

Um ii was married before i really ever thought about what does that mean

You know i married

My college sweet

You know i hadn't

I got america is that's what you do yget marriage

You know um

But i hathoughts about it as a technology

And why it's there

I didn't

I didn't understand it the way i do

Now you know there's a line from a joseph broad ski poem

That he wrote when his wife didiwhere he he ys ys wwh h kknew know astronomy

When stars appear

And i feel that way as a divorce lawyer

Like i wish i knew know a astronomy when stars as appear

I wish

I wish i didn't know what the end of so many marriage es looks like because i think i would have a more optimistic and unrealistic of you of it

I would ewould i be ffororce gigiving way yeah

I be foolish yeah

I be fool

I'be as foolish

But i don't don't know that don't don't know

Feels like to know right

Sometimes there's tremendous joy to be had and like falling

Feels like flying for a little while

You know so you hit ground

It feels really good

But as i said early now that the life expectancy of man is around the eighties or something no

Then it's like so you're going to do this from your twenties or thirties

Yeah

Eighty well

Ririage is a technology that was designed like when women died and child birth

And when en en died their forties

If they were lucky

You know fifties

If they were super lucky like you were in your fifties or sixties

You're an older

You know that was pretty amazy and women most women died and childbirth

Like childbirth's traumatic

It's a traumatic thing

And before modern medicine before we underrested into biotics

So marriages is um

I don't think anyone ever planned that

That it was gonnbe okay

We're going to mber this forever ver know wegoing going do this

This toper in our

You know towere a hundred i mean

But i think that's part of a bigger problem

You know i don't member who said it

But i remember someone saying ii can't remember what was remean

We are prehistoric creatures

Right like we are

We are biological creatures

Living in medieval institutions

Like education

Work with god like technology

How do you think that ends like you

You think enenin happily ever after like that's insane

Like ririage was not does i mean

Think about even the early days of mars

Think about every rogers and hamerstein musical you know

Think about oklahoma

You know where you'd have like there's like the three people in town

That aren't married

You know and you sort of pick which of the three

You know you were going to go be with

嗯

And now you

You have access to just an endless supply of the opposite sex

Or or or shouldn't say the opposite sex

You have an endless supply of romantic partners in

In a devsing your hand

How

How does that possibly stand up

How does marriage the idea of monaugamy forced monogamor

Enforced monogamy

How does that ever survive in

In that environment

I don't think

You can i don't think it's realistic um

And i'm this statistics proved me right

You know the statistics are absolutely in my favorite now geay get marriage many times you want

If

If you have prprint uff

You have print up

I'get

Get riget

Get married a blast being married is difficult

You know someone once said that it's great to be married

Sometimes the problems you're married all the time

So fan of preinups

So a huge fan of prprinuts

I mean

I shouldn't be

I'm a print up for a couple of thousand dollars

Will sayou over hundreds of thousands of dollars potentially in legal fees

If not millions

Because there are clients i have that to spent over a million dollars just in their legal fees

That if they had spent two thousand dollars on a preineup

We would none of that

That 'd still have that money in their pocket

And that's incredible to me like i have two sons or adults

That they are absolutely going to have have braineups

Like they have to have preineups

Maybe fools to not have preineups

It's like jumping out of a plane with no parachute

Why would you do that

It's

It's just it's stupid prineups are enforceable they make sense

I actually they're something very romantic about prineups

Because they're forcing you to have a conversation about this relationship

Like we

I genuinely believe that we are the most aware of our health

Just after we got sick right

But when we you wake up and you have a toothache

All you can think about us as like your ttwo thoughts

And then your toothache goes away

And for like a week you go

Oh My god

At least i don't have a toothache

You know

But then i'm

I'm goes by you don't wake up and go at least i don't have a toothache

Yeah

It's a further thing for your mind

But theoretically you could wake up

Today and go

I don't have a toothache

I don't have a backache

I don't have a head cold

Like he's a great day

It was a typical al preineup look like typical

The easiest preen up in the world easiest yours mine hours

That's it yours mine hours

In your name

It's yours

It's in my name it's mine

Like going to divorce everything

All the assets are split fifty

Fifty

Will know know what you say in a prenuptual agreement is if it's an asset or liability

If it's in my name it's mine

If it's in your name

It's yours

If it's

It's our jojoint names we'll viviit fifty

Fifty

That's it yours mine hours

And then you have to have ongoing conversations throughout the marriage about you know yeh i got this bonus at work work

Do i it in in acact

Do

Do i put it in jojoint

It's a husband

Once a house

That's worth whatever two million dollars or many riies of woman

Hmthe the houis is still will they have to have a conversation

Do ioua house tion you okay

You know what's a awkward conversation

A conversation ten years later with a lawyer about the fact that you have to give half of diassway to someone isn't it better to have that conversation

When you still like why

Why would you learn how to fight in a fight

But what would that undermine the love

That each person who feel h why you're gonna die

Does that undermine your life

Or does it make you conscious of the fact that this is finite

And that you should be out there like i think having a conversation with your partner about look i love you

You love me

We

We want to do this thing together

But the numbers are against us

And the world is antagonstic to it

And the world will be together forever

But if we split up

What are we owe each other

What do you expect from me

Because i have to tell you something i'm a fair person

I'm a fair person

If you say to me unit gm i

If i'm not gonna work as hard

Because you make a good living

So if we split up

I'm mean need

Need help for a couple of years

Because i'm not gonna pay detention in my career okay

Does that

That unreasonable

That's totally reasonable

You know if i say hey

Listen

I have this house

And i bought it

You know i'm buying it with money that i made really before we were together

So if we split up

I don't really think you deserve half a bit

You think that

If we bought things for it together

That okay

Those things you can half up

But how was itself like that's money i had before i met you

And what

Why can't you have that conversation

Why not you instead i mean

You buy a house

You do a hot one

A led paint disclosure

You got to sign all these things that i

This is how much

The interest is gonnbe in

This is

But you get marry ggget get aan pamplate

You don't get any used did the most legally significant thing you're ever going to do other than die

And no one has explained any of it

You people come ing in my of it

And they go well my retirement accounts ts in my name

And

And i get doesn't matter it's in your name

Okay was required during the marriage age kay she's got half of it

I had this bank account

But it's in my soul name

It's money that i'm might have from my mom

I'm

I'm okay

It's in your name

Yeah But

But inherited that money during the marriage

And did you put money that you earn during the marriage in that account

Also yeah

Okay

That's comingled led in transmuted that's now marital property

So they don't know that

Why because no one tells them met when they're getting married all it did you spend more time talking about the cake

Than you do talking about the fact that you just opted out of the title system

That's gigentic you can't legally change the beneficiary of your life insurance even to your children

If you're married without your spelse signing a consent to that no one tells you out

And you know you can married

Elvous can marry you for twenty dollars at a drive through fedral

And you it's a legal status

A massive leger er

You buy your ouse or role acyou

You bought yourself one half of a rolex

You buy someone a birthday present

Who married to you bought them

You bought yourself one half of that birthday present

Nobody know

People don't know that

They learn that for the birth time in my office or in a courtroom

That's insane what what other thing in the world

Like anything else and any other contract

You would say what waited it

No one explain that to me

No one explained that

When i leleast this car

No one explained to me

That there's where in tear doesn't say that

Anywhere in the contract right okay marriage contract doesn't that

It doesn't say you know

Oh

And by the way you're opting out of the title system in your retirement assets

And all these these things

Things

If there's any debts

And you could have enenanced ed arning capacity or celebrity good will that us to be value by forensic accounts

Little coast one hundred thousand dollars

You don't no contract it says

That it just says yep we're get married two witnesses

We're good like what other contract

What other contract in the united states or anywhere has that lack of disclosure

And is that binding none

Zero None

So why a prineup

Yes

That's an awkward conversation

I guess

I don't know that

It has to be

And

And acto say you the more awward ard the conversation

It is the more

You should think twice of about getting marriage

Because if you can't have a conversation with this person about the possibility that someday wonder both of you might heard each other like how many people while they're still happy and in love

Say something like you know bave i love you

But we're in disagree about something at some point

And when we do how how do you like to fight

Like do you need a minute

Like do you need like to be alone for a minute

So you can kind of come now or are you the like

Hey

We got to figure this out

And we can't go to bit angry

Because let's talk about that now

What we're not in the fight

Like let's talk about it now

While we well

We still get along

And we're happy

And we're trying to figure out how to navigate each other

It's hard engh to navigate yourself

I want to navigate another human being

Why don't we have that conversation up

But no

We don't we learn on the job

We learn how to fight in a fight

Which isinsane

But

But again

But because it disnein it's aawkward

It be awward ard have that conversation more awkward than getting in a fight

Where you don't know the rules of engagement

Where you don't know how your partner does better would febetter like it

And you're not gonasthem them that the heat of battle

You know so why wouldn't you have that awkward conversation

While you have this ababdance of affection for each other

I mean

When i negotiate prinups

It's easiest thing in the world

In sense

Because these two people would feel better each other

You know they're about to get married

So they're clearly not trying kill each other

Other at that point

They 'clely ly like each other

So you just say liesn't home talk your your eleland say about xyi

And

And see what what they you know

See what

Think think see i tell them what 're concern

Is and and very often people will come back and say to me

I mean

I have tell you i've been doing this now you know over twenty years i do a lot of preineups

I do maybe five six preineups a month

Sometimes during like pre wedding season which is the fall and before the summer

I'll do ten fifteen a month

The people who say to me

Oh

Like i don't want to have that conversation

You know i think they get the praying up

And within three four years divorce

Sometimes five years and then seven years

But they're the ones who get to worse

They

They have no business getting riririlike the ones who have the discussion and figure out

The one worworried

If if like you keep the place

Yeah you're okay

So what if i give you this amount of money

And it's this much reach er okay

Yeah

That's school let's to withthat way those people the prime never to put the preineup in to save some place

And never look at it probably a good communications

Uh because theyy're able to talk to each other

And they're able to talk about hard things

And are y're going a be married to someone have children with someone

And you can't talk about hard things

You know like how how you to navigate life

And not be able to talk about hard things

Like that's silly

So you can't talk about hard things

Don't get fuck and married okay

You don't have two

You can stay together

But

But people love i had a client no joke

Guy was in his seventies

Whose married

Whose married four times i did his third fourth divorces

And he was getting married for a fiftime

And i said joomi was like you

Because i actually thought he's older

So i said like this

He know you don't have to marry them

Anymore like this

I maybe doesn't know

Yes Yeah

Maybe someone didn't tell them like maybe someone didn't tell him like you can fuck them

You don't have to marry them anymore

You can just do that divide is tell them

Well i say i mean it's getting smaller and smaller every time

But i said do mel's like why are you doing this again

I ellike like you don't have to get marririlike like you're clearly not created it

You know like i think was very funny

He said um

He said unungym

He said you buy a car and you drive it for two hundred thousand miles

And eventually the engine craps out

So you go out

And you buy a frari or you buy some flashy sports going

And you ry up a couple months

You realize this as not the car for me

So you get rid of it

Me yet another car

And you know you think this one's going to be the one for you

But you know after you drive it for like a year

You realize

Yeah

This is not the car for me

You can lestesome some sort of byou

You

You going a walk everywhere for the rest

Your life

Yeah

Well that was my answer you could lese them

You could lose them

Or you could you have some other altnnto rin

I mean

Here's the thing about marriage age is it's a technology so we made it up

So we can change it is you think marriage al change in the next next twenty years

No no

I think it'll

I actually think it's going to have

I mean

I think we're leaning

I think the pentulelem always swings hard in the other direction

We have a

We have a tendency as a culture to overcorrect

So i think we're

We're heading into a spiral of tratraditional stuff

And i think you're going to see like people getting like super religious

Again people are going to at super dogmatic

I think we're going to see the traad withing

We're going to see the hyperascuin

And we're going to see like a very weknow

We've to that weve gone so far in the direction of post modernism

Where nothing means anything in everything's just

You know like there re's dedef it we become like sarra

You know like we've become so postmodern

That it's become almost the form of rug and individualism

I think we're in a swing

In the other direction now tratraditional instituin

The

The thof s again

It will be

I mean you know from a marriage place

It's going to be great

Because i think people are 're going to get married

And

And people were marlowing down

I'm getting married for a while

And they were getting married later

And they're having kids later

We're declining to have kids

And think think we

I think as a culture we start resolidifying into gender roles or gender troops

Depending on how when to look at it

I think you're going to see marriage research again

But i think that it's still going onbe a flaud of a technology es that ever was

And i think we have so much out there now to compare ourselves too know i used to compare yourself to the neighbors next door

And what car they had in the drive way

And what they were wearing

When they left for church on sunday

Now you're just looking at everyone's greatest hits while living your gag reel you know

And you're never looking at any of that stuff

When you're having like a peak experience

Here you're on the toilet or your board

And you're looking at everyone's hash tag blessed and meanwhile there in my office

But i can't tell emeny people do a consult with me

And they're cheating

And they have been up at their thousand three years

And they're miserable

And you're looking at their instagram

And it's all like best life ever hash tag greatest hobby ever

And you like what

What is this

It's performance art

You know it's an advertisement of how happy work

But this is what people are comparing themselves to they 're looking at that

And going all my marriage isn't that good but that marriage isn't that good trust me

That marriagisn't that good

That marriagis in look at celebrities ties

Don't

Don't Even

Even

Look at the people you know

Look at celebrities you know before they do it

It is with great sadence that we advised

That we're going to be moving in separate directions and consciously on coupling and like that right before for that it's like go

Know we're happy

We're great

're 're enomenal

You know where we're

We're constantly advertising how wonderful ful our relations tionships are

While they are on fire you know

And then wondering why everyone you know miserable in their relationship

Because they're comparing it to something fake as are comparing your your body to a photoshopped body and other than social medido

You think there's else se our society that made marriage more difficult to stay together

Now makes it just like your parents stay married

Yeah

My parents stayed

Stay married

Until my mother passed away same as as me

But they were

They were mixed

Result i see

I think that my parents were not as as caught up in their own happiness

I think we're very caught up in their own haand rover very self self

Yeah

We're very

Very ort di don't want to say narcissistic

But we're very much

Like we are the sun

Which everything what 're not alive

Yeah

My father was a vietnam veteran

You know he got out of the enabletaatomy and sixty six went to vietnam for three years

So he was alive

So he was like fock

I'm ahead and playing in the house

House 's money alialive

Everybody in their wedding party

Diying all the men in their wedding party

Died in vietnam

There's five guys and in the old died ed vietnow my parents never looked at their wedding amobecause

Because single le en

And it was that they were all helicopter pilots and vietnami about killed in their twineies

You know

So they didn't really see marriages

Like it was a partnership

It was again

We're going to do this this thing

We're going to have a ds

We're going raise the kids

We're going to

You know

We're going to have a house

You know we're going to have a car

That will be successful ful lights around my father was dirt poor

He came

We're going to lation part of of of of virginia small town called shaws bill

You know indoor pluming to a left for the enabl academy

And he just i think he saw marriagage

Yeah

What you do

You know he met my mom on fleet week

She was a nursing city

And

And he was you know on fleet week

And he had his uniform on

And he was in a bar

And he was drunk

And he

He went to her

And uh he said you the most beautiful woman i've ever seen

And i'm going to marry you

Because he was drunk

And she said are

Are you in the military is uwear in a uniforment

He said yeah

And she said what country

And he said whatever country you're from

And he invited her to visit him at the navl academy in a couple of weeks later

And she came

But he had invited three other women

He just didn't know any of them would come

So he invited all of them

So my mom got there

And she saw these other women

And she said either i'm leaving or they're all leaving

And he was like i kind of like her

So he made them all leave

And they were yeah

Were married fifty plus years

But you know their riririhad d challenges

You know he was an alcoholic

He 's had been in recovery for maybe seven eight years

And she passed

But um and he's remarried

But he marriried within a year of my mom dying like he was the kind of he's of a generation should of men

That he needed someone to take care of him

You know my mom died

He didn't even not a scramble an egg like it was you know

Like after she passed

That he had dn't come him stay with me and my sons

And i was trying like teaching

Like okay dad

Here's how you make like a batch of chly

And then you can eat it all week

You know

And

And i was like asis skygana

Because they had this very you know

But that's what i met another older woman and share husband and didge

She needed someone to take care of he needed someone to take care of him

But

But that generation didn't have an dieasious as you

That's

That's what sasaying like they're reaning your basic needs right

They were grateful to be alive

They were grateful to be alive

Because they either been through war and not grateful

This were driven mercedes are ah and even then we're not grateful

And because the true there is well okay mercedes have a mercedes who cares

You know when people have mercedes is my secretary as a mercedes

She lees it

And know they tried the jeep

Because she better than me is she more successful than me

Works for me

You know

So i don't

I don't know that any of it's enough anymore like no matter what watch you have someone e's got another one or a better one or five of them

No this comparison that we see it's all

And so i just think that's the thing that makes it impossible right

Like if if

If you're our art parents generation was struggling to just make it through right to

To meet your basic needs

To keep a roof over your head

To raise your children

And now it's very much are you self actualized you happy do you have a eight pack

At like it would never

Never occurred to my father did you have an eight pack

I would never been something he thought of you know it's just not

It just wasn't on his right are you know

And i don't think my mother would have ever been like long you know it doesn't have a an apack

Like that wouldn't again

Because it's not constantly being advertised to him

You know

I think that how many women did you interact within a day

You know how many women why interact within a day

Visually or personally in some fashion

Or

Or you know in accurated mediated way

And again those are curated ted women by the way

So their photoshop

Their airbrushed there they've got ft ters on them so again know know i how does marriage survive in that setting it had a hard enough time

I'm surviving without all of that i mean forget kids

The divorce ate keeps increasing right

Yeah keeps gone up

It keeps ggoing up

It's

It's been

Been hanging around fifty three to fifty six percent for a while we had a bump after covc

What what are other countries

Like countries that have a significant religious narrative have the lowest divorce rates

So the lowest divorce rates are in like you know saudi

Raviyou it didon't have a whole of right

You

You not allowed to divorce you just just your wife

Kilkilyou know so

So that's

That you don't have to divorce um so the countries

Where there is this very strict religious prohibition against marriage are against divorce

So we might be the highest divorce rate

Ah ah

Where among the highest

Yeah Yeah

I don't think where the we might

We might be the highest now for a while

Um germany had a very high divorce rate

France had a pretty high divorce rate

Um what's interesting is

Is the divorce rate and the marriage satisfaction rates those are different

Because most people the goal is not can we stay married

The goal is can we stay happily married

You know

Because it's somebody said to me like yeah

I've been married twenty five years

I've been been cked in miserable for fifteen of them

Like i'm not going to envy

You like great job really hung in there

And that awful situation you know like that's

That's not impressive

Me

You know i

I'm cousin who got married those us chats and with her she's younger woman

And i shard she her her husband uh just joined the police force

And i said him

So

So i trying to make small talk

And i said so did you know do like it any from my family cops

I said not

Not really

But you know i'm going to do like the twenty years

And then you know yet you pension thoughts i'd just do by twenty

That's twenty years

You're twenty five years old

That's twenty five to forty five those are

Are acking incredible years

You'll never get those back

And your approach to life is yeah

I don't like it

But i'll just kind of do it

You know like ii want to tip to through life and arrive safely and death

Like that seems you know

But ii get that

That's what

Where if that's what marriage is if it's an endurance event

You know where no no

You've gota stay married

You know why i mean

That's why i think religions have been very quick to i mean

I always tell them i'm not religious

I was raised very catholic

But the reality is that

That you know i mean

There's if

If in fact god talked to humanity with ten commandments

I think it's hilarious

That the only thing he has to say twices don't fuck people you're not married to though oushshall not kill once right honor the sabbit

Once don't have it your neighborwife don't commit a adltery

It's

It's the only thing

So only thing they got

Got who commandments so like basisics don't kill honor the sabbit don't fuck people you're not riry

Too seriously don't fuck people you're not married to like a they no

It didn't got dosh sh on not steel one

You know every if the only one they got double billing religions of the ononent each component ts

But why because how else are you going to control people

How how else are you going to get people to sign on for this things

And not sleep with each other

I mean

I'm not saying fraud was right

But we

We do want to sleep with people

We do want to kill people

That don't to what we want them to do like we have these animal instincts

We have these impulses

And what do we do with them

What we have to live in a civilized society so pozation

That's this contents we have the marriage is certain marmarriage without lot or just abolished

It would just be a free for all i don't know

If that's true

I mean

I think that

I think people would like us to believe that's true

You know i don't believe that

Like i don't believe that

If

If murder wasn't illegal

That i would just go killing people

Like i

Like you know

Like ii rape and murder as many people as i want to

Which is none

Because i'm not a monster

Like i don't i rape as many people as i want to

No

Because ii don't want to

I ouldn't want to do that to another person

I think

I think socisociety would be probably happier without marriage

Well

I think we would have a lot less of the damage that comes right

I think we'd have defined new narratives to structure

To define relationships right

I do think there is a part of us that wants to say

Cause you as a grown man who's divvorce

When youwhen you're twenty

And you say say that's my girlfriend

Nobody thinks saing of it when you're fifty

And you say that's my girlfriend

People go on there's a story there

Because you're either divorored or commit and phobic or what do you have a girlfriend

When you're fifty

Wisn't that your wife so they know there's a story there

So we'd have to

And i

And i get it

I get it

Because if

If someone says or that's my boyfriend

It's like great well that could be for a week

And i could have been nothing that could be like guess my boyfriend

My husband

It's i go okay wait

That's

That's

That it's her husband

Like she's got some authority

There so i get that

There's this idea that we want to say

Like you know it's when you're a little kid

This is my friend

That is my best friend

Yeah

That was my best friend

But like how many adults still need to say

That like how many adults still need to say

Oh

My friend tom and i

And my best friend tom and i like okay

Like so so extra special friend like

Like i

What that they are like do they get health insurance with

With that

Like what is the deal with that

So i think that's kind of what marriage es become as it's like you know well

But the person i love don't know

But like the person i love

Like there's a lot of people i love

I wouldn't want to be married to any of them

But there's a lot of people i love you know

And i love my x wafe

I wouldn't want to be married to her

I think she loves me

She wouldn't want to be married me

I don't blame

I'm a great x husband

I'm a terrible husband

The great x husband

Because the skill set for an x husbands totally different than skill set for a husband

Skills set for a father is completely different than that of a husband

That's the the thing i have to tell people all the time

All the time people say what he's terrible husband

So he ouldn't have cucudy the kids ds like what up

But where's the old overlap between being a good husband and being a good father

Like being a good fathera whole different skill

You could be a great husband and a shit father

And you could be amazing father

Terrible husband

Like this is there's very the overlap in those skilill sets

You know maybe good listening skills would be helpful in both

Their patients would be good in both

But that's true almost anything you know it's a doctor in a lawyer

Bobe be good

If you had good listening skills

It doesn't mean that the same profession so is divorce harder and women or men it's a great question

I think it's equally hard on both

But i think that the world is more sympathetic to women

When they get divorce ed

I think one

A woman gets cheated on the man's piece of shit

And when a woman sheets on a man

She must have been forced into the arms of the other man

Or she had to explore herself as she was being neglected in some fashion

And so if a man sheets his piece gargarge

And

And if a manwiwife cheets

She muesn't have been meeting her needs

And she had ever wrin the ds like so the world

World very

Very unmpmpthethetic to men

When they get divorce

Ed Divorce

Yeah

That's been for i mean there was a maternal presumption

Legal

Legal presumption

What was called the

The tenyears dodotron

Which

Which was that if a child undundthe age of seven

They were automatically presumed that they would be in the custody of the mother um and men

So men get really beat up still in court

I mean the lass theoretically as gender blind

Right now

But ii don't

I don't actually see that

Because the law is people

The law is judges

And judges are human

And they

They are all the same biases

And

And it's not a moment

Right now

Where men are particularly sympathetic characters

You know

I think that

You know even young man i mean

If you know

If

If a school dance they think beyond says girls who runs the world

Like if there was a song called men who

Who ununs the world

Men and it was a positive thing like you get pilrired for that

So i think that men have a very hard time

Right now in divorce they see their children less they get hit harder financially um and they the bad guy

No matter what if they cheat

They are the bad guy

If they get cheated on they were the bad guy

Because they probably neglected her

There's a presumption

That the man is to blame a lot of the time

Now again you know marriage equality has been a thing for a while

So there are

There are

You know tons of gay couples

And if it han't really too women diororing each other um

And that hasn't really shook out too much yet in terms of how that plays out um

I don't know if it's that that gain less been couples are better at it and had to resexual couples

Or if it's still there in the honeymoon period

Because you know marriage age albody has maround around that long

But i think men find a less sympathetic world

But in fairness

Divorce men have it a little easier

I think divorce men meet a young woman and woman's like instant family just adad me that's great

You know if hee's got kids

It's like all h he's got kids or got a nurturing years and a lovely and women

You know they get divorce they've got kids and guys are like group

Let's got baggage and a calon near that you know

So i think

I think they that men and women have different problems post abvorce and um

The world could be better to both of them

I think that i have some women who uwho you know i've done their didiororbecause whatever guguys with them is going to be very lucky

Thetheyyy're beautiful

They're smart

They're good mooms

But they're also you know vibrant exciting women another loaded

And they've got money

No ah the've got money

They

They have as much financial insecurity

Although i have tell you that you know what's last remaining feminist taboo

I got a lot of women pay in alimony

These days

I mean

You know women can women married the like handsome musician who's not successful were the artist

You know like it's equally listen ing

It hasn't been

You know there's been a significant effort in

In our culture

In the last decade

If anyone didn't notice it improve the situation of women

If you have an equally qualified men

And it equally qualified women

The women's the diversity higher demands

Not

So i have a lot of women

Who get

When they get told like

Oh i know you gotta give hhalf your shit

Oh no You

You got to pay alymony

Because he makes fifty grand a year

And make two fifty

And they're like

Like you know they could be the stanious feminist in the world

And when you tell him they got to pay alymony

They like like h ow ow ow wh

Wow

He's a man

He's got a strong back

He can get out out there work like

And then suddenly the whole like gender is a construct

And there's no such thing that goes right out the window

And you got told

You

You got pay alalimony

That's like no no no no no beliebeliegot strstrict er roles men should pay alumony

Women even if you were in ten times

You should not have to pay alymony

I ve ad

I ve ad very very stunchshally feminist clients who

Who changed their mind about how feminists they were

When they got told that they were going to have to pay alumony

Interesting

Yeah

And but i do have a lot of men who won't take alommony

Even though they're entiled to it

Because there's just some feeling of like yah not not doing that

It's

It's masculating like if she tells people that we know that i took alymony from her like people will think i'm less than than man so so yeah

It's all gender stuff

It's still out there

It's still still part of as i guys

You know we're still try to figure out out out

How many marriages are genuinely happy

You think i may riry couples goh because i could i see merry couples that have been married it looks like it been married a decade too

And thethey're having dinner

And they're have ving the same conversation

They yeyeday of the day before

The day before that in the weeks and months before that you know here's just iiii have i know a lot of people

And i think i know one couple that has like a genuinely happy marriage do you think a secret is they really like each other

I don't know like they're really good do each other

I have tell you they make me very uncomfortable

I jokingly my ax wife

And i jokingly say that they were the reason

We got dibvored

Because we've known them

Since we were in college

And we went to disney with them

With their kids and our kids

When all the kids were little

And we were going to go on to ride

With our kids and their kids

And they

They were going to

You know like we'll take the kids on the ride

New guys can go

And my friend was i go good

We're just going to go walk and hold hands

And they walked away

And like holding hands and we looked at them

And we didn't say anything to each other

But like five years later

When we got divorce

I said you know it

When i saw the two of them together

I thought i don't feel like that about her like and she said dtm my god remember that exact moment

I felt the same way

So i think they make people uncomfortable

Like when you see someone

Who's got it right

Like this guy just loves her

He loves her

They'd be mared twenty about steryeah do he's like it's like he's talking about a girly met yesterday and shshe's same way way him shshe e's miracle when happhapps yeah

She think it like you know mman

I tell people marriages like the lottery

You are probably not going to win

嗯you know

But the but but if you win

What you win is so good like i know maybe buy a ticket

Fuck it like byebye to get a preanut

You do you take all your money and buy ilattertertickets no right

But if you and don't

Don't buy lottertickets

So gonna play a lottery

You not going to fuunk and win

Why you don't set the money on fire will be more fun

But

But if something said to me now

And you know what once a week i buy twenty dollars with glattery tickets right go for it

You know somemy's got to win maybe to be you like same thing with marriage like makes somebody's got to win like yeah

I've mhundrereds if not thousands of couples

And i know one one that is legitimately happy

And like really seem to just feed that happiness

But by that marriage that they have

And

And they both as individuals have become the best version of themselves by bit

You know what like if

If they win the lottery

So by the ticket

I guess

You know

But i mean

Don't

Don't make that your retirement plan like don't go like well you know

Don't worry

I'm not saving money for my kidcolcollege

Because you know buying lottery tickets like that's you

You're an idiot

If you do ing that exxon

Jim

Thank you so much for sharing your story

It's a pleasure

You thought so a ririage move and divorce fascinating and tofic in that

Ah ah

It is

And i suspect it will continue to be ah

I don't know that we're going to culturally get any better at it

But uh economy is good

We're busy

Economies is bad

We're busy

Wewe're recession proof industry

So you know it's

It's even

Even cova didn't slow us down

You know

Because it's probally spend you up

Well

People said for better for worth sit and safe for lunch

You know

And when you locked in the house together

It was

That was not great for what most ririages like there was no

No

It was not hay we should all spend more time together

You know there was

There was a lot of difficult conversations that came out of that barbers and divorce ed lawyers

When the pen deicended we were the lines were out the door

You know

So whatever the next thing is

You know

What will still be here right

Thank you so much

You got them in